This China shit is getting out of hand

[Tiny]

Can somebody explain this to me:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ancer-research

The most dysfunctional part of the government, the Justice Department, is now doing its best to criminalize cancer research by people of Chinese heritage. And reading their email and talking to their neighbors and colleagues to see if they're loyal. For the woman described in the link above, they couldn't find enough to prosecute her, so leaned on some fanatic at the National Institutes of Health to threaten to withdraw government grants from M.D. Anderson unless they got rid of her.

What's next? Are we going to start throwing Chinamen in concentration camps, like we did the Japs in World War II? This is stupid. I can't think of anyone stupid enough in White House to do this except Stephen Miller, who is Joseph McCarthy reincarnated. At least he looks like McCarthy. And maybe some of the types in the Justice Department who relished going after Clinton for blow jobs and after Trump for Russian collusion.

And don't say this is like Huawei, who were stealing our technology. As the article says,

Wu's work, like a lot of the academic research now in danger of being stifled, isn't about developing patentable drugs. The mission is to reduce risk and save lives by discovering the causes of cancer. Prevention isn't a product. It isn't sellable. Or stealable.

This is collaboration on basic research, to solve problems that plague mankind. Someday China, with over a billion bright, industrious people, is going to be our equal in science. Having separate systems in place researching the same things like we did during the Cold War is stupid. We should be working together. We'll accomplish more. This is especially important in cancer research.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Can somebody explain this to me:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...ancer-research

The most dysfunctional part of the government, the Justice Department, is now doing its best to criminalize cancer research by people of Chinese heritage. And reading their email and talking to their neighbors and colleagues to see if they're loyal. For the woman described in the link above, they couldn't find enough to prosecute her, so leaned on some fanatic at the National Institutes of Health to threaten to withdraw government grants from M.D. Anderson unless they got rid of her.

What's next? Are we going to start throwing Chinamen in concentration camps, like we did the Japs in World War II? This is stupid. I can't think of anyone stupid enough in White House to do this except Stephen Miller, who is Joseph McCarthy reincarnated. At least he looks like McCarthy. And maybe some of the types in the Justice Department who relished going after Clinton for blow jobs and after Trump for Russian collusion.

And don't say this is like Huawei, who were stealing our technology. As the article says,

Wu's work, like a lot of the academic research now in danger of being stifled, isn't about developing patentable drugs. The mission is to reduce risk and save lives by discovering the causes of cancer. Prevention isn't a product. It isn't sellable. Or stealable.

This is collaboration on basic research, to solve problems that plague mankind. Someday China, with over a billion bright, industrious people, is going to be our equal in science. Having separate systems in place researching the same things like we did during the Cold War is stupid. We should be working together. We'll accomplish more. This is especially important in cancer research.

Tiny, not all of China’s people are bright and industrious. But some of the brightest at US university’s are spies.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/02/01/p...age/index.html

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

Tiny, not all of China’s people are bright and industrious. OK.

Bambino, You take them out of China and put them in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the USA and Canada, even Latin America, and they thrive. Do you remember the Bell Curve, which was condemned by the politically correct because some small part of it dealt with IQ and race? Well, according to the book, people of European Jewish heritage are the smartest in the world. The Chinese equal them in math, and are as good as everyone else verbally. Now that the Chinese have allowed free markets to take hold, they're formidable and will become more so.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Bambino, You take them out of China and put them in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the USA and Canada, even Latin America, and they thrive. Do you remember the Bell Curve, which was condemned by the politically correct because some small part of it dealt with IQ and race? Well, according to the book, people of European Jewish heritage are the smartest in the world. The Chinese equal them in math, and are as good as everyone else verbally. Now that the Chinese have allowed free markets to take hold, they're formidable and will become more so.

Tiny, save your hyperbole. Not ALL billion Chinese citizens are bright and industrious. I’ve been there twice. Hong Kong once. I can assure you they have people there that aren’t perfect. Just like here. And if China is so great, what took them so long to get where they are today? If they’re so bright why do they steal our IP? If they’re so industrious, why not open their market and compete fairly?if you think their markets are as open as ours you’re grossly misinformed. Quit sucking up to the ChiComs. They cheat, steal and rig the game.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

But some of the brightest at US university’s are spies.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/02/01/p...age/index.html

You added this to your post after my reply. This is comparing apples and oranges. The Bloomberg article is about basic research. The CNN article is about Chinese spies recruiting students and others for military and industrial espionage.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Tiny

You added this to your post after my reply. This is comparing apples and oranges. The Bloomberg article is about basic research. The CNN article is about Chinese spies recruiting students and others for military and industrial espionage.

So what. They cheat and steal. Why should we trust them? If they’re so great, open their markets to us like we do for them? We’ve collaborated with Russia in space exploration and we don’t need their economy. Fuck them until they level the playing field. I was in Shanghai hospital #5 in 2005. It was archaic. We helped them modernize most of what they have. Time for them to reciprocate.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bambino

Not ALL billion Chinese citizens are bright and industrious. I’ve been there twice. Hong Kong once. I can assure you they have people there that aren’t perfect. Just like here.

Originally Posted by bambino

So what. They cheat and steal. Why should we trust them? If they’re so great, open their markets to us like we do for them? We’ve collaborated with Russia in space exploration and we don’t need their economy. Fuck them until they level the playing field. I was in Shanghai hospital #5 in 2005. It was archaic. We helped them modernize most of what they have. Time for them to reciprocate.

Things may have changed since 2005. I was in Shanghai last fall and the parts I saw looked like a first world country. My hotel was on the bund, and looking across the river looked a lot like staring at Hong Kong Island from Kowloon.

You want them to reciprocate. So how's that end served if we cut out collaboration in basic research and deport scientists of Chinese heritage who are collaborating with colleagues back in China?

As to your link about the Chinese student, the USA has benefited greatly from foreigners, including Chinese, who came here, studied science and engineering, and then stayed on. We'd benefit more if we'd give out more immigrant visas to smart people, like Trump wants to do.

And we benefit from foreign students who return to their countries. They've been indoctrinated to some extent in the American way of life, and will be friendlier to us as they advance in life. There have been a lot of leaders in third world countries who were and are our allies largely because they went to school in western countries like the USA and the UK. Maybe this hasn't happened much with the Chinese, because they're not old enough yet to occupy high positions.

The intelligence thing is a two way street btw. Presumably the CIA has recruited Chinese students to work for us when they return to China. And yes we do need law enforcement here working on industrial and military espionage. There's no sense throwing the baby out with the bath water though.

[the_real_Barleycorn]

We navel gaze in this country about our collective role in slavery though no one is still alive to comment. Many of the Chinese leadership is still alive from the mass starvation of millions, the executions of hundreds of thousands, Tiananmen Square, and body snatches murders. Like to see some introspection in a trading partner.
Why did the Chinese intelligence people hide their connection to Indonesia? The rich and powerful Riady family is actually named Lee. You know them, they own the Clintons.
I'm sure that every mapping drone sends a copy to cloud for their masters in China. The military doesn't want Huwei phones on military bases. Wonder why...
Even Barry got this one right but his response was token.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

We navel gaze in this country about our collective role in slavery though no one is still alive to comment. Many of the Chinese leadership is still alive from the mass starvation of millions, the executions of hundreds of thousands, Tiananmen Square, and body snatches murders. Like to see some introspection in a trading partner.
Why did the Chinese intelligence people hide their connection to Indonesia? The rich and powerful Riady family is actually named Lee. You know them, they own the Clintons.
I'm sure that every mapping drone sends a copy to cloud for their masters in China. The military doesn't want Huwei phones on military bases. Wonder why...
Even Barry got this one right but his response was token.

They’re so “bright and industrious” but they haven’t put a man on the moon yet. Oh well.

[FriscoKiddo]

"Peace" is an illusion. It is merely the time and space between war. It has been with us since the dawn of man, and very well may be the end of us before any "theoretical" end of the world comes via the climate. So what do global military powers do during "peace?" They engage in research and development (R&D) of better ways to destroy potential adversaries...R&D of better ways to circumvent potential adversaries technological superiority...R&D of better espionage techniques...probing adversarial boundaries...like playing chicken in the South China Sea, Philippine Sea, or the air over Alaska....R&D of cyber warfare by probing large data banks (think all the unrelated hacks around the world are truly "unrelated?")....Just like no one saw the shooting of an Austro-Hungarian prince by a Serbian nobody setting the world on fire in 1914....or sailors returning to ships after partying till 2-3am Saturday night December 6th, 1941 saw what would happen Sunday morning a few hours later...I can tell you...no one will see the next one coming either. Peace is an illusion, some one, some where is preparing for the next war. Are you ready?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by FriscoKiddo

"Peace" is an illusion. It is merely the time and space between war. It has been with us since the dawn of man, and very well may be the end of us before any "theoretical" end of the world comes via the climate. So what do global military powers do during "peace?" They engage in research and development (R&D) of better ways to destroy potential adversaries...R&D of better ways to circumvent potential adversaries technological superiority...R&D of better espionage techniques...probing adversarial boundaries...like playing chicken in the South China Sea, Philippine Sea, or the air over Alaska....R&D of cyber warfare by probing large data banks (think all the unrelated hacks around the world are truly "unrelated?")....Just like no one saw the shooting of an Austro-Hungarian prince by a Serbian nobody setting the world on fire....or sailors returning to ships after partying till 2-3am Saturday night December 6th, 1941 saw what would happen Sunday morning...I can tell you...no one will see the next one coming either. Peace is an illusion, some one, some where is preparing for the next war. Are you ready?

I’ve been there twice. The ChiComs are industrious at controlling their people. If you want to see income inequality, go to China. My point is, they’re not brighter or more industrious people than any other country. If you compare China to the US the past 200yrs, it’s not close. And we helped them to get where they’re at today. They should put their big boy pants on and play on a level playing field. Let’s find out how bright and industrious they are.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by the_real_Barleycorn

Why did the Chinese intelligence people hide their connection to Indonesia? The rich and powerful Riady family is actually named Lee. You know them, they own the Clintons.

Interesting. I was skeptical about what you wrote, but read up a little on it and you're probably right. I never understood why James Riady made the contributions, given that the family has very little in the way of business interests in the USA. My best guess was to have some kind of relationship with the leader of the free world to improve the family's reputation. Also he's a bible thumping evangelical Christian (really) and maybe felt some kind of kinship with Bill Clinton, who's a southern Baptist.

The Riady's don't have a lot of investment in China outside of Hong Kong, so now what I don't understand is their motivation in cooperating with Chinese intelligence to funnel money to the Democratic Party. I guarantee it's not because of some kind of ethnic patriotism. They're all about the money, and the patriarch of the family was born in Indonesia.

[FriscoKiddo]

I had an interesting, un-official conversation over coffee with a gentleman from DIA who was a presenter at a non-classified intelligence seminar at the War College (in the early 1990s)...I asked "Why does China always seem to abstain or remain silent on geopolitical issues around the world involving government purges, rebellions, coups, genocide, etc" and found the answer interesting...China is/was really an advocate of national sovereignty. The internal issues of a government are that countries issue and that countries issue alone...and the world has no business telling said country how to conduct its business within the confines of its own borders. Now, Tibet and Taiwan not withstanding...if you put China's actions on foreign issues within that context, it starts to make sense, at least it did to me. That info was in the early 90s, before China was a big player in international trade, and relaxed some of its more militant philosophies regarding capitalism, so I am not sure the same is true today.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Bambino, You take them out of China and put them in places like Hong Kong, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand, Malaysia, the USA and Canada, even Latin America, and they thrive. Do you remember the Bell Curve, which was condemned by the politically correct because some small part of it dealt with IQ and race? Well, according to the book, people of European Jewish heritage are the smartest in the world. The Chinese equal them in math, and are as good as everyone else verbally. Now that the Chinese have allowed free markets to take hold, they're formidable and will become more so.

I think you make excellent points about the Jewish people of Europe.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by bambino

I’ve been there twice. The ChiComs are industrious at controlling their people. If you want to see income inequality, go to China. My point is, they’re not brighter or more industrious people than any other country. If you compare China to the US the past 200yrs, it’s not close. And we helped them to get where they’re at today. They should put their big boy pants on and play on a level playing field. Let’s find out how bright and industrious they are.

Excellent points.