businesspeople who classify employees as contractors are assholes

[friendly fred]

I think a business should have severe penalties for purposefully misclassifying employees to skirt employment law.

It is unfair to American workers and honest competitors.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

I think a business should have severe penalties for purposefully misclassifying employees to skirt employment law.

It is unfair to American workers and honest competitors.

I agree, however most folks are ignorant of the fact that small builders in fact have to do this because they do not have enough work to hire roofer, electricians, plumbers and the like full time.

I'll tell you a company that skirts this , they are not a builder though....the packages you get from Fed Ex, 90% are delivered by contract workers. Fed Ex Express are Fed Ex employees.

Please feel free to inquire if you are unsure of how other businesses you may have to no knowledge about, actually work.

[themystic]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

I think a business should have severe penalties for purposefully misclassifying employees to skirt employment law.

It is unfair to American workers and honest competitors.

Fred there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Most are working. As contractors, taxed employees, under the table cash, you name it. Most of them work directly or indirectly for wealthy millionaires that are fully aware of their status

[WTF]

Fred is like a small housebuilder, he hires contract asian girls to do part time work on his lower extremities...I've never heard him say he wanted to pay their various taxes!

[dilbert firestorm]

is this about uber and lyft drivers being contractors?

[themystic]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

is this about uber and lyft drivers being contractors?

damn good point Dilbert

[WTF]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

is this about uber and lyft drivers being contractors?

Fred could take Uber to see an asian hooker who he'd contract for services take Uber back and get on his computer and bitch about 'house builders' contract help....and never see the irony.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by themystic

Fred there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Most are working. As contractors, taxed employees, under the table cash, you name it. Most of them work directly or indirectly for wealthy millionaires that are fully aware of their status

I disagree that most are working. Many are working, but others are supported by the workers, and also get government benefits.

We need the taxes from every worker, and do not need to give government handouts to illegals, if we are ever going to reduce the debt of our once great nation.

[friendly fred]

Originally Posted by WTF

Fred could take Uber to see an asian hooker who he'd contract for services take Uber back and get on his computer and bitch about 'house builders' contract help....and never see the irony.

I don't think you understand what constitutes an independent contractor. When I hire a plumber to fix a leaky pipe, and pay his invoice, he is clearly an independent contractor, just like a hooker working at an AMP.

If I have a full time yard man at my house 40 hours a week, and tell him what jobs to do, he is an employee.

If I build homes and a plumber has three guys to help him and they work under his direction, they are employees, and matching taxes must be paid.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by friendly fred

If I have a full time yard man at my house 40 hours a week, and tell him what jobs to do, he is an employee.

Good for you. So you had your yardman fill out the IRS's Form I-9 when you hired him to verify he's eligible for employment. And you also have a Form W-4 on file so you can calculate how much to withholding from his paychecks. You withhold social security, medicare, federal income tax, federal unemployment tax, and state unemployment tax from his paychecks. You deposit the withholding with the federal government and regularly file Form 940 to report withholding. You file form W-2 with the IRS at the end of the year to report your yardman's wages and withholding, again. You pay workman's compensation insurance. You do the necessary reporting and have the safety guidelines and policies in effect to comply with OSHA standards. You've posted the notices regarding discrimination in the workplace required by law. So you are correctly doing what you need to do because your yardman is an employee and not a contractor.

Wouldn't it be easier just to mow your own lawn?

[Jackie S]

Social Security, and who pays it, is the big issue.

I have (former) friend that had a fairly larger construction company for decades. The specialty was new housing slabs and framing.

Over the years, the majority of his labor was sub contract. That means he did not pay the required Social Security on the huge amount of wages paid out, he relied upon the sub contractor to take care of it.

Most were illegal residents and paid nothing. The SS administration and IRS finally took a look. Most of the sub contractors could not be found, so guess who is in hot water.

This man is the same age as me, 72. He owes hundreds of thousands of dollars.

They are playing hardball with him. He might even do time.

[Budman]

Originally Posted by WTF

I agree, however most folks are ignorant of the fact that small builders in fact have to do this because they do not have enough work to hire roofer, electricians, plumbers and the like full time.

I'll tell you a company that skirts this , they are not a builder though....the packages you get from Fed Ex, 90% are delivered by contract workers. Fed Ex Express are Fed Ex employees.

Please feel free to inquire if you are unsure of how other businesses you may have to no knowledge about, actually work.

For the most part that statement is incorrect. Home builders typically do not have tradesmen on their payroll. They hire subcontractors who may or may not be licensed depending on the trade and the state. These subcontractors are legitimate subcontractors. They in turn hire labor that in many cases should be classified as employees but are classified as subcontractors to save money. If they are an employee the employer must verify their status to work in this country by requiring certain pieces of ID. The ID may be stolen or forged but the employer is not an expert on forged documents so he hires the employee. He has done what the law requires. If he classifies them as subcontractors he does not need to verify legal status and he does not have to withhold taxes or match FICA. The sub is typically not on the GC's insurance so it is much cheaper to classify them as subs. To be competitive in the construction industry this is almost a requirement. The small subcontractor that has 10 employees and is bidding the same projects as another sub that has 10 subs is at a huge disadvantage in overhead expense.



I have been out of the construction business for about 10 years now but we hired both employees and subs. We knew that some were illegal but as long as they produced the proper documents we were covered. Most of us have heard that the illegals are only hired because they can be paid less. I don't know about other companies or industries but we never paid anyone based on their legal status. We paid them based on what they could do for us to make money.

[Budman]

[QUOTE=themystic;1061070353]Fred there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Most are working. As contractors, taxed employees, under the table cash, you name it. Most of them work directly or indirectly for wealthy millionaires that are fully aware of their status[/QUOTE]




And you know this how? I believe most work for small companies and the owners are not millionaires. They are hiring based on their labor needs and are trying to be competitive. I don't know if there is a system in place today that an employer can easily verify someones legal status. I know in the past there was not. Years ago we had an employee that had given us a fake SS #. After several years the IRS contacted us saying the SS # did not match and asked us to verify it. We did and again it did not match. We told the IRS that we would terminate this individual immediately and were informed that we could not do that. That was the last we ever heard about this situation.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by themystic

Fred there are 11 million illegal immigrants in the USA. Most are working. As contractors, taxed employees, under the table cash, you name it. Most of them work directly or indirectly for wealthy millionaires that are fully aware of their status

You're wrong by half. A new Yale study puts the number of illegals in the U.S. at over 22 million.

22 million American jobs that are denied to 22 million American workers who are now dependent on the social safety net funded by the taxpaying American workers who do have jobs and pay local, state and federal taxes. Much of what illegals earn is sent out of the country and thus isn't spent -- or taxed -- locally to support local roads and schools.

This is anecdotal, but back in the 1980s, I did know of a contractor who purposefully hired illegals, and he did pay them less. He contracted with large oil companies for oilfield work. Those jobs paid American workers more than twice the minimum wage. This guy's illegal Mexican workers were getting minimum wage.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Budman

For the most part that statement is incorrect. Home builders typically do not have tradesmen on their payroll. They hire subcontractors who may or may not be licensed depending on the trade and the state. .

Budman you proclaim that what I said was mostly unture and then reword exactly wtf I said!

Be like me saying 2 plus 2 equal 4 and you saying I'm wrong and going into some long tirade that concludes 2 plus 2 equal 4.

It is like your point was to say I'm wrong and then hopefully write enough bs to tire the reader out before coming to the exact same conclusion as I.