New Laws go into effect today and...

[IrishSailor]

It looks like the K Festival website has been taken down. Hmm...

[mikehammer002001]

Originally Posted by IrishSailor

It looks like the K Festival website has been taken down. Hmm...

Thought so also, but they changed the site, contact booker for site info

[Azulkrema]

Ssunflower website isn’t showing anything either

[eccie28]

Does the law effect all levels, 1, 2 and 3??

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by eccie28

Does the law effect all levels, 1, 2 and 3??

L2 and L3, definitely. L1 would be a stretch, but as reaching as the new law attempts to be, expect L1 to be tested by a Texas DA somewhere.

[Billogoods]

As far as I know, a client violates no laws if he/she receives "inappropriate contact" during a massage, or any other treatment (medical, therapeutic, cosmetic, etc.), unless the client solicits such contact with the promise of compensation. It is, however, explicitly illegal for the licensed provider to make purposeful contact with the genitalia for sexual purposes, compensation notwithstanding.

The question, then, is whether it is legal for a provider to have sexual relations with a client before or after rendering services. If the provider is "off the clock" and receiving no compensation for sex, it's just two (or more) adults having some fun, behind closed doors.

I realize that no cop would venture to make this distinction. The perps would merely be advised to "tell it to the judge".

And, realistically speaking, most of these gals have no license. So, it's not a massage. It's reflexology or relaxation therapy.

[bender1717]

Originally Posted by Billogoods

The question, then, is whether it is legal for a provider to have sexual relations with a client before or after rendering services. If the provider is "off the clock" and receiving no compensation for sex, it's just two (or more) adults having some fun, behind closed doors.

So all you have to do is convince the provider to not accept your money and convince the jury that she just digs you.
How many thousands of dollars in legal fees would it cost to find out?
If she's not a provider, just someone you had sex with, you should be ok. Unless you provided her something of value like dinner at a nice restaurant or a nice bouquet of flowers...

[Jayhawk328]

Originally Posted by Billogoods

As far as I know, a client violates no laws if he/she receives "inappropriate contact" during a massage, or any other treatment (medical, therapeutic, cosmetic, etc.), unless the client solicits such contact with the promise of compensation. It is, however, explicitly illegal for the licensed provider to make purposeful contact with the genitalia for sexual purposes, compensation notwithstanding.

The question, then, is whether it is legal for a provider to have sexual relations with a client before or after rendering services. If the provider is "off the clock" and receiving no compensation for sex, it's just two (or more) adults having some fun, behind closed doors.

I realize that no cop would venture to make this distinction. The perps would merely be advised to "tell it to the judge".

And, realistically speaking, most of these gals have no license. So, it's not a massage. It's reflexology or relaxation therapy.

There's another thread that has a link to a Shyster John post (aka the resident hobbying lawyer on ECCIE) that discusses the new law. He makes a great point when he says that virtually everyone who gets busted makes the same mistake - discussing money OR activities / services prior to meeting up.

When setting up appointments with my regulars right now, I never discuss anything beyond scheduling a specific time for us to meet. I feel like if I can figure out a way to provide the donation before or after a session, it would just be two consenting adults having some fun, right? The caveat to this would obviously be trust between both parties, so seeking out new providers would be a bit more difficult.

I'm probably oversimplifying all of this, but I do think it's an important point that Shyster John brought up as far as not discussing money or services prior to meeting. I doubt LE will wait until after you are done with a provider to bust you.....it always happens beforehand, right? But then to throw another complexity into this is if the a john or provider becomes an informant or participates in a sting, which I would imagine will be more frequent after new law since people will be desperately trying to avoid catching a felony.

[chuss]

I'm afraid kfest N sunflower , won't put up with any of this and they prolly move tho different state...

[Billogoods]

Originally Posted by bender1717

So all you have to do is convince the provider to not accept your money and convince the jury that she just digs you.
How many thousands of dollars in legal fees would it cost to find out?
If she's not a provider, just someone you had sex with, you should be ok. Unless you provided her something of value like dinner at a nice restaurant or a nice bouquet of flowers...

You wouldn't have to convince the provider to not accept money. You can give money to her, or anyone else, as long as it is not for illegal goods and/or services. You don't have to convince a jury that she gives a shit about you. Sex doesn't require emotional attraction.

When you get your day in court, you only need to convince the judge/jury that there is insufficient evidence to prove that you offered or agreed to compensation in exchange for illegal goods and/or services.

[Owj]

Of course the trial won’t happen right away. There is the headline with name and picture, a felony arrest on your record that will ruin your life as well as legal fees. Even if not guilty, your life is trashed and there will forever be doubt. Add the cost and time to get it expunged and the question becomes did you really win.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Owj

Of course the trial won’t happen right away. There is the headline with name and picture, a felony arrest on your record that will ruin your life as well as legal fees. Even if not guilty, your life is trashed and there will forever be doubt. Add the cost and time to get it expunged and the question becomes did you really win.

Yup.

The only defense we have, is the hope that a Court will see the tyranny and overreach, and block the law going forward.

If a Government-related ''Authority'' (just one) decides you might have committed an Offense, you are finished. Which among us is the next Robert Kraft?

[no_romance_needed]

Hi all. I've been mostly out of the hobby for a few years now, but recently been getting the itch again. Looks like I've picked a shitty time to dip my toe back in. I'm unfamiliar with these "new laws". What's up? Can anyone suggest where I can read up on them.

I will say this without seeing the changes... this game never ends, just changes.

[Buckwiser]

Sephronia Thompson, the Democrat Houston rep that proposed the solicitation = felony, has been in office since 1972... talk about career politicians. She said by making it a felony, it can now appear on background reports used by employers. So she's saying, if you solicit, you don't deserve to ever work in the USA again.

Now, it is likely that in 10 years or less, the media et. al will have rebranded men found guilty of soliciting as "predators."

I cant wait until the first Texas politician who voted yes to be taken down by this law.

[oldphone14]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk328

There's another thread that has a link to a Shyster John post (aka the resident hobbying lawyer on ECCIE) that discusses the new law. He makes a great point when he says that virtually everyone who gets busted makes the same mistake - discussing money OR activities / services prior to meeting up.

When setting up appointments with my regulars right now, I never discuss anything beyond scheduling a specific time for us to meet. I feel like if I can figure out a way to provide the donation before or after a session, it would just be two consenting adults having some fun, right? The caveat to this would obviously be trust between both parties, so seeking out new providers would be a bit more difficult.

I'm probably oversimplifying all of this, but I do think it's an important point that Shyster John brought up as far as not discussing money or services prior to meeting. I doubt LE will wait until after you are done with a provider to bust you.....it always happens beforehand, right? But then to throw another complexity into this is if the a john or provider becomes an informant or participates in a sting, which I would imagine will be more frequent after new law since people will be desperately trying to avoid catching a felony.

That's right. A prosecutor has to show INTENT to commit a crime.

SEX is not illegal, so not proof of illegal intent.

TIPPING is not illegal, so not proof of illegal intent.

Talking about TRADING money for sex.....well, figure it out.

I think the best bet now is to stick to regulars, say nothing, money speaks. They know you, and you'll be able to tell right away when something is fishy (theyve been set up to sting)