Biden's Proposed Increase in Capital Gains Tax is Causing Family Businesses to Sell to Private Equity on the Cheap

[Tiny]

This is not a good trend IMHO. It potentially means more debt, more bankrupt businesses, and fewer jobs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-tax-hike-risk

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

This is not a good trend IMHO. It potentially means more debt, more bankrupt businesses, and fewer jobs.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-tax-hike-risk

I heard a very long time ago that America is in debt with China. China wants to collect on those debts. Maybe that's how they are going to settle the score. Raise the taxes on small business. As businesses fold China buys them up.

https://youtu.be/hv0lrMrKa60

[texassapper]

You will own nothing and you will like it. Because the alternative is suicide in prison... which our government excels at facilitating!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

I heard a very long time ago that America is in debt with China. China wants to collect on those debts. Maybe that's how they are going to settle the score. Raise the taxes on small business. As businesses fold China buys them up.

https://youtu.be/hv0lrMrKa60

It would go the other way Levianon. If the politicians and the Fed keep spending like drunken sailors, maintaining interest rates lower than inflation, and running up inflation, maybe they'll debase the dollar so all that debt owned by the Chinese will be worthless. We'd be out of hock to the Chinese!

If that happens the price of poontang will be dirt cheap. The best time to monger in Argentina and Brazil was back when inflation was sky high.

A lot of retirees and pension funds and savers would be wiped out so it wouldn't be all good.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by texassapper

You will own nothing and you will like it. Because the alternative is suicide in prison... which our government excels at facilitating!

Yes, take a look at Bambino's John McAfee thread.

[reddog1951]

But on the other hand, I'd like to see the ultra-rich (Trump, Bezos, etc., not limited to party) pay a share of personal income tax somewhat proportionate to the rest of us.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

I like the idea of tax cuts and grants for business owners, but at a certain point, when you're worth almost a trillion dollars, maybe you could be paying at least closer to the same in taxes as the worker ants.

[Unique_Carpenter]

All my clients that are over 50 are attempting to execute their exit plans.
Those and a lot of other clients are moving investments into Muni bonds.
To all the Dims thinking they can increase tax revenues, welcome to the real world.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Unique_Carpenter

All my clients that are over 50 are attempting to execute their exit plans.
Those and a lot of other clients are moving investments into Muni bonds.
To all the Dims thinking they can increase tax revenues, welcome to the real world.

The Wall Street Journal got hold of the tax returns of John Kerry and his billionaire wife Teresa Heinze Kerry years ago, when John was advocating higher taxes. Turns out most of their assets were in tax free municipal bonds. Apparently taxes are for the little people and the businessmen, not heiresses and Senators.

And yes if Biden gets his way on capital gains you may see revenues from the tax go down. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) and Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) assume the revenue-maximizing capital gains tax rate is around 28%. Higher capital gains taxes make people more likely to hold onto their assets instead of selling. Ergo, higher capital gains tax rates can result in less tax revenues. Biden wants to boost the rate to 43.4%, above the 28% level that maximizes revenues according to the CBO and JCT.

Another effect, you can take a profitable business with little debt owned by a businessman. It pays a lot of tax to the federal government. Then private equity buys him out. They load the company with debt to finance the buyout. The interest expense on the debt wipes out the pre-tax income, so the government gets less revenues. From the link in the OP, this is what's happening this year.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by reddog1951

But on the other hand, I'd like to see the ultra-rich (Trump, Bezos, etc., not limited to party) pay a share of personal income tax somewhat proportionate to the rest of us.

Originally Posted by Strokey_McDingDong

I like the idea of tax cuts and grants for business owners, but at a certain point, when you're worth almost a trillion dollars, maybe you could be paying at least closer to the same in taxes as the worker ants.

You may be referring to the leaks of billionaires' tax returns that ProPublica's been writing about. What ProPublica doesn't take into account is the billionaires' businesses pay huge amounts of tax. Zuckerberg's share of Facebook's taxes over the last 12 months for example was about $1.5 billion.

Before the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) in 2017, the billionaires' corporations were typically paying at a state + federal rate of around 40%. Afterwards around 25%. The combined rate on owners of pass through businesses averages around 46%.

Yes, you do have corporations running money through places like Ireland and Bermuda to cut taxes, but the TCJA cut down on this. It also unfortunately ensnared U.S. owners of smaller foreign companies so that some and their owners are having to pay combined tax rates of upwards of 80% on foreign income after repatriation.

Reddog brings up two special cases. Trump managed to wrangle a 900 million tax loss as a result of the bankruptcy of his casinos that he's been able to carry forward to offset income. He didn't really lose the $900 million though, his bondholders did. And Amazon I don't really understand. Somehow Bezos built a huge company which never had to pay much tax, I think because they were spending money so fast to expand it offset their income. In any event, Bezos' and his wife's share of Amazon's income tax over the last 12 months is about $600 million.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

It would go the other way Levianon. If the politicians and the Fed keep spending like drunken sailors, maintaining interest rates lower than inflation, and running up inflation, maybe they'll debase the dollar so all that debt owned by the Chinese will be worthless. We'd be out of hock to the Chinese!

If that happens the price of poontang will be dirt cheap. The best time to monger in Argentina and Brazil was back when inflation was sky high.

A lot of retirees and pension funds and savers would be wiped out so it wouldn't be all good.

No that's not going to happen. America as well as other countries depend on Chinese goods. The only way your plan would work is if America got off it's ass and started producing all of it's needs right here in the United States. Unfortunately America is a country full of spoiled ass people. The only interest other countries have in us is our buying power.

[Strokey_McDingDong]

Is it an issue of being spoiled? Low income workers would probably rather work manufacturing jobs than all the shitty fast food and retail jobs that are out there.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Levianon17

No that's not going to happen. America as well as other countries depend on Chinese goods. The only way your plan would work is if America got off its ass and started producing all of it's needs right here in the United States. Unfortunately America is a country full of spoiled ass people. The only interest other countries have in us is our buying power.

Sorry, I meant to write "could go the other way", not would. I don't think what I described would happen, unless possibly the progressives take control of the presidency, House and Senate and keep it for a long while. And yeah instead of going down with the ship maybe the Chinese would use some of those excess dollars to buy up American industry.

And that is definitely not my plan. I meant that tongue in cheek. I don't believe in a weak dollar, huge government spending, or prolonged periods where inflation is much higher than interest rates, like it is now.

[Levianon17]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Sorry, I meant to write "could go the other way", not would. I don't think what I described would happen, unless possibly the progressives take control of the presidency, House and Senate and keep it for a long while. And yeah instead of going down with the ship maybe the Chinese would use some of those excess dollars to buy up American industry.

And that is definitely not my plan. I meant that tongue in cheek. I don't believe in a weak dollar, huge government spending, or prolonged periods where inflation is much higher than interest rates, like it is now.

It doesn't matter what party has control now the damage has already been done. China has the upper hand on America. Trump was the last guy to give China a run for their money and his own people rejected him and China saw that shit. Now we have a president who is all talk and no action, China sees that shit too and they'll take full advantage of it.

[rexdutchman]

Puddens ,,, and some people voted that way