Trump Caves On Tariifs w/China

[nevergaveitathought]

if we are in the cold, china is in the freezer

yes, transparency, we know his goals, we know the issues, he is very open and gives in effect his own news conferences

theres not a lot hidden away and done in secret in case there's failure or for personal enrichment reasons, he puts himself on the line

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by Tiny

As to Hong Kong, it's like Crimea and Russia. Trump's willing to let Hong Kong go down the tubes if it helps him get what he's seeking from China. Unfortunately, he probably doesn't recognize the seriousness of what could happen if the PLA came into the territory to restore order and decided to stay. Some believe this could result in a worldwide market meltdown, which would not be good for his re-election prospects.

The biggest moral delima is aimed at Europe. Are the Western Countries willing to let China bring down the Iron boot on Hong Kong and just look the other way.?

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

The biggest moral delima is aimed at Europe. Are the Western Countries willing to let China bring down the Iron boot on Hong Kong and just look the other way.?

I hope not. but it can't just be us putting the screws on China. I feel like Europe won't do shit, I hope I'm wrong. but when I see how they allowed their own Countries to crumble as they have, why would I expect them to put out against China?

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

I hope not. but it can't just be us putting the screws on China. I feel like Europe won't do shit, I hope I'm wrong. but when I see how they allowed their own Countries to crumble as they have, why would I expect them to put out against China?

correct

the eu wont put out against anyone

aside from war, which I don't even want to contemplate

its economic leverage

even to the point of what we are doing to iran

[Tiny]

The Europeans aren't going to cooperate with us on making China play fair when we're pulling away from them and pursuing more nationalistic policies, not to mention putting tariffs on their steel and aluminum.

[Chung Tran]

I don't know what the answer is for right now. we are in too deep to back away. we do that, and China is emboldened further. if War happens, you can't blame the US if you are on the sidelines, expecting us to take care of whatever World problem pops up. I think we need to back Hong Kong strongly, but how long can you play the game of Chicken? the current uprising may fail, but Democracies rarely occur at first opportunity.

on the other hand, Tiananmen Square was a head fake. I would hate to see the current Hong Kong unrest yield to the small dimension Tiananmen Square proved to be.

[matchingmole]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

flesh that out.. what does Hong Kong "blowing up" exactly mean to the idea of delaying tariffs? wouldn't tariffs speed up the process?

I lived in Hong Kong, not just visited. I'd like to see a separate and fully Democratic Hong Kong. why hasn't Trump given any support? not even a Tweet?

Trump will back the wrong side just as he did when during the Tienneman China massacre. He cares more about the strong man regimes than freedom. If the students had succeeded...the world would be a much better place




In 1990, Trump told Playboy magazine: "When the students poured into Tiananmen Square, the Chinese government almost blew it. Then they were vicious, they were horrible, but they put it down with strength. That shows you the power of strength. Our country is right now perceived as weak... as being spit on by the rest of the world."
Trump, of course, referring to the Tiananmen Square massacre in which hundreds, maybe thousands of peaceful pro-democracy student protesters were killed by a military presence of as many as 10,000 troops accompanied by tanks.
Trump called the protests a “riot”, sparking a storm of criticism on social media.

[Chung Tran]

Originally Posted by matchingmole

Trump will back the wrong side just as he did when during the Tienneman China massacre. He cares more about the strong man regimes than freedom. If the students had succeeded...the world would be a much better place

I'm going with this theory until I am shown otherwise. no question strong Rulers give Trump a particularly satisfying orgasm, when he thinks of them while jacking off.

[oeb11]

If China decides to use its' military to take over Hong Kong by force, and possibly Macau - I see little the Western world can do to stop Xi.
HK is geographically a part of China - and For the West to take a war to free HK to mainland Chini would be a suicide mission.

It would be akin to China trying to invade NYC .

You do not win an invasion across the seas with long supply lines and no near base of operations.
US won the Normandy invasion with some luck - in part because of a staging area across the English channel, lots of time to prepare, and Germany knew not precisely where they would attack. Hitler was duped into believing the attack would be at Pas de Calais. none of those advantages apply.

If china decides to take HK militarily - there are no good military responses - and all-out war with China for HK is not an option.
Such action by chin would roil the world's economies and inflict sanctions on china - they are a totalitarian regime and will do to their people as the Nomenklatura see fit. Including starving their people rather than lose face.

[Chung Tran]

well said.

but with that in mind, what can or should we do? tacit support for Hong Kong? I don't know, I'm asking..

[matchingmole]

It would be akin to China trying to invade NYC




They immigrated to NYC many years ago......Chinatown thrives there.


I agree with oeb though....a tough situation. I'm sure Trump and his superhuman intellect will arrive at a solution. He can play 4D chess.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by Chung Tran

well said.

but with that in mind, what can or should we do? tacit support for Hong Kong? I don't know, I'm asking..

Thank you - CT
i think the US is limited to diplomatic talk and economic sanctions.

we have already used a fair amount of the economic sanction weapon - I am afraid much more and we may precipitate a world wide economic depression.
Military intervention in Hong Kong is out of the question.
The opprobrium of the civilized world likely means little to Xi - who fears loss of face above all.
IMHO.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by matchingmole

It would be akin to China trying to invade NYC




They immigrated to NYC many years ago......Chinatown thrives there.


I agree with oeb though....a tough situation. I'm sure Trump and his superhuman intellect will arrive at a solution. He can play 4D chess.

Well written , MM
i see Trump now has your vote!

[Yssup Rider]

Musta got the memo.

[matchingmole]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Well written , MM
i see Trump now has your vote!

I just made a beautiful and tremendous donation. Have never seen anything like it....used the profits from my Enron stock and investments from Bernie Madoff. I have a good feeling about this...............