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Old 08-15-2019, 02:20 PM   #46
Why_Yes_I_Do
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Default Wait! Whot? We ain't all gonna die...

Oh darn, we're not in recession after all. Sorry Bill Mahr. Better luck next time.

Consumer spending beats expectations - Shoppers reject phony media recession fears...

by Sundance




Average wage growth remains +3.5% year-over-year. The growth of overall income for American workers exceeds +5.4 percent year-over-year. Unemployment is a low 3.6% and U.S. consumer inflation remains low at 1.4 percent. Meaning: the middle-class has more disposable income to save or SPEND; and that’s what is happening….
  • Reminder #1: Consumer spending is two-thirds of the U.S. economy.
  • Reminder #2: We consume more than 80 percent of our own production (products created in USA). We do not rely on exports.
  • Reminder #3: Because of #1 and #2, the “Main Street” U.S. economy is self sustaining -much stronger- and more protected from the negative impacts on the global economy.
  • Reminder #4: Who/What is at risk from global contraction? The Wall Street economy (compromised primarily of multinationals). What is not at risk, the Main St economy.
  • Reminder #5: Because of #3 and #4, Wall Street can drop while Main Street thrives.
This is also why the longer China delays talking tariffs the more they lose. Must be that magic wand Trump has
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:22 PM   #47
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How's yer portfolio???
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:29 PM   #48
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How's yer portfolio???
exactly.. you can look at numbers through a rear view mirror, but the Bond Market is paying under 2% for a 30 year maturity. that is a strong signal of economic weakness ahead.
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:34 PM   #49
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Didn't Bush call this DooDoo Economics?
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:46 PM   #50
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Didn't Bush call this DooDoo Economics?
close enough
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Old 08-15-2019, 02:56 PM   #51
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Didn't Bush call this DooDoo Economics?
That was Obama’s economy. In the shitter.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:38 PM   #52
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Default Sa-weet!

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How's yer portfolio???

Looking good. Buying the dip.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:46 PM   #53
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Trump rode Obamas economy. Lets see what happens since everyone is coming down from the sugar high-(i.e. tax break for the rich)
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:06 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do View Post
Oh darn, we're not in recession after all. Sorry Bill Mahr. Better luck next time.

Consumer spending beats expectations - Shoppers reject phony media recession fears...

Average wage growth remains +3.5% year-over-year. The growth of overall income for American workers exceeds +5.4 percent year-over-year. Unemployment is a low 3.6% and U.S. consumer inflation remains low at 1.4 percent. Meaning: the middle-class has more disposable income to save or SPEND; and that’s what is happening….
  • Reminder #1: Consumer spending is two-thirds of the U.S. economy.
  • Reminder #2: We consume more than 80 percent of our own production (products created in USA). We do not rely on exports.
  • Reminder #3: Because of #1 and #2, the “Main Street” U.S. economy is self sustaining -much stronger- and more protected from the negative impacts on the global economy.
  • Reminder #4: Who/What is at risk from global contraction? The Wall Street economy (compromised primarily of multinationals). What is not at risk, the Main St economy.
  • Reminder #5: Because of #3 and #4, Wall Street can drop while Main Street thrives.
This is also why the longer China delays talking tariffs the more they lose. Must be that magic wand Trump has
From A Navarro Recession, by the The Wall Street Journal Editorial Board, August 11, 2019:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-navar...s&page=1&pos=3


Multiple reports out of the White House last week say President Trump overruled all of his economic advisers other than Peter Navarro when he decided to impose new tariffs on China. Global and American economic conditions have been heading south ever since, so perhaps we should call this the Trump-Navarro trade-policy slowdown.

The U.S. economy has held up better than the rest of the world, thanks in large part to Mr. Trump’s policies. Deregulation and tax reform revived a recovery that was long in the tooth and barely escaped recession in 2015-2016. Business confidence and capital investment surged, which has driven further job market gains, rising wages and durable consumer spending.

But note the economic canaries. CEO confidence and capital spending have tailed off since the trade war escalated in 2018, and the falloff is beginning to affect economic growth. The near-3% surge in GDP has slid to 2%, and average monthly job growth has declined to 165,000 this year from 223,000 in 2018.

Exports have subtracted from GDP as global demand slumps, especially for manufactured goods. If oil demand stays low, the oil and gas industry will have to begin layoffs. The 10-year Treasury yield dipped below 1.6% Wednesday morning, another sign of slower growth ahead.

Oh, and has Mr. Trump noticed that the trade deficit hasn’t improved? Global supply chains are moving out of China to third countries such as Vietnam. But the overall U.S. trade deficit is steady. This is because the U.S. invests more than it saves. Thus it imports capital from abroad, which in the national income accounts is offset by a trade deficit.

The irony, and a dangerous one, is that Mr. Trump doesn’t seem to understand that his trade policy is contributing to exchange-rate instability and a rising dollar. When he slaps tariffs on China he reduces the demand for Chinese yuan. He also encourages capital flight to safe havens like the dollar, which encourages more capital into dollar instruments and the U.S. China isn’t manipulating its currency. It is setting a lower peg to reflect supply and demand and prevent greater capital flight out of China.

We aren’t predicting a recession, but then few thought we were in a recession in mid-2008 either. Economic downturns can sneak up on the smartest policy makers. Dan Clifton of Strategas Research Partners has begun noting that Mr. Trump is “‘trading away’ his re-election” as his trade policy erodes what was a strong economy. Mr. Clifton is a supply-sider who supports Mr. Trump’s tax and deregulatory agenda.

This is a warning the President should heed, and probably one Mr. Navarro won’t tell him. If Mr. Trump can’t strike a broader trade deal with China before the election, he should at least call a trade truce to reduce the damage. Economic expansions don’t end on their own. They almost always end due to policy mistakes. Mr. Trump’s willy-nilly trade offensive could be the mistake that turns a slowdown into the Navarro recession.


From The Navarro Recession, II, by the The Wall Street Journal Editorial Board, August 14, 2019:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-nav...s&page=1&pos=1

After we warned last week that U.S. trade policy was courting recession, White House aide Peter Navarro took to Fox Business to denounce us for sounding like The People’s Daily, the Chinese Communist propaganda arm. That was novel as criticisms of these columns go, but perhaps Mr. Navarro would care to comment again after Wednesday’s recession warning from the bond and equity markets? Are they Commies too?

Stocks fell about 3% on the day on bad economic news out of Germany, China and the bond markets. Europe’s largest economy shrank by 0.1% in the second quarter as exports fell amid trade and Brexit uncertainty. Chinese readings on factory production, consumption and employment also revealed an economy that is slowing sharply. China’s industrial production increase of 4.8% was a 17-year low.

Investors saw all that and headed for the tall grass of U.S. Treasurys. The yield on the 10-year note hit 1.58%, dipping for a time below the two-year bond yield. The 30-year Treasury hit a record low of 2.018% and closed at 2.02%. Yields this low show investors are moving out of risk assets and they signal slower growth ahead—perhaps even a recession unless events and better policies spur more optimism.

Some Trumpians are cheering the Chinese economy’s pain, but they should be careful what they wish for. They could drive China, the world’s second largest economy, into its first recession since Deng Xiaoping began the era of pro-market economic reform.

A Chinese recession would mean a European recession, which would send U.S. growth down too. The impact would be worse if slower growth triggers capital flight from China and there’s a disorderly fall in the yuan.

Mr. Navarro and President Trump spent Wednesday blaming the Federal Reserve for the market meltdown, and we suppose any scapegoat will do in a storm. The Fed isn’t blameless, and we argued it shouldn’t have raised rates last December. But it has since countered that rate increase with a 25-basis-point cut in July, and even another 50 basis points won’t be enough to counter a downward spiral of trade and currency mayhem.

We’ve been warning for two years that trade wars have economic consequences, but the wizards of protectionism told Mr. Trump not to worry. The economy was fine and the trade worrywarts were wrong.

But we never said tariffs would produce immediate recession. We said they—and the climate of uncertainty they were creating for business—would chill global trade and undermine the surge in capital investment spurred by tax reform and deregulation. The growth momentum from tax cuts and a strong labor market were able to mask the impact of helter-skelter trade policy for a time. But that old economic disciplinarian, Adam Smith, sooner or later exacts a price for policy blunders.

....Someone should tell Mr. Trump that incumbent Presidents who preside over recessions within two years of an election rarely get a second term.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:16 PM   #55
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Trump rode Obamas economy. Lets see what happens since everyone is coming down from the sugar high-(i.e. tax break for the rich)
Yes, the rich, the poor, and the middle class got a reduction on their personal tax rates. Some upper middle class taxpayers did not, and some of the rich in places with state income taxes (which become nondeductible) pay more federal tax.

Actually though it was primarily a tax break for corporations, investors in rental real estate, and owners of businesses with lots of employees.

In my mind, the lower tax rate on corporations was called for, as our corporate tax rate was higher than everyone else's, putting us at a disadvantage compared to foreign competitors. As to the rest of it, it depended on your personal situation, as to whether you won or lost, and it wasn't necessarily the rich who were the winners. I believe the lower corporate tax rates will generate long term benefits to the American economy, not just a sugar high.
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Old 08-15-2019, 05:59 PM   #56
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I agree on the Corporate tax cut, and its worthiness, but the very rich got an ENORMOUS tax break! the 1% made out like Bandits!
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:43 PM   #57
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I agree on the Corporate tax cut, and its worthiness, but the very rich got an ENORMOUS tax break! the 1% made out like Bandits!
Not really. People who own rental real estate and people who own businesses which are labor intensive made out like bandits. Then there are people who pay more as a result of the tax "cuts", including me.

Look at tax rate tables:

https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/i...-tax-brackets/

Two things to keep in mind. If you decrease the tax rate on someone from 39.6% to 37%, that's a 6.6% decrease:

100% - 37%/39.6% = 6.6%

If you go from 28% to 24%, that's a 14.3% decrease. Also, upper income taxpayers are mostly stuck with an additional 3.8% Obamacare tax.

Anyway, single taxpayers making from $9,526 to $157,499 (married from $19,052 to $314,999) got significant cuts in the rate on their marginal income -- they're paying 12% to 14% less tax on marginal income.

The rich who make over $500,001 pay 6.6% less, not taking the Obamacare tax into consideration. Throw in the Obamacare tax and it's less than 6.6%, but not a lot less.

The tax cut was close to "0" for most singles making $157,501 to $499,999 (married from $315,001 to $599,999). And some actually ended up paying more. For example, a single taxpayer making between $157,501 and $191,649 got pushed up to a 32% tax bracket from the 28% bracket.

Then there were a host of changes to the tax law, other than tax rates, that primarily hurt upper income and wealthy taxpayers. The limit on deductibility of state income taxes is an example.
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:49 PM   #58
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Trump rode Obamas economy. Lets see what happens since everyone is coming down from the sugar high-(i.e. tax break for the rich)
Sure he did. Trump doubled GDP and raised wages and the lowest unemployment rate in 60yrs. Energy independence. Yep, that never happened under Obama. Trump rode Obama’s economy out the door. And created a great economy. Best in the world.
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:36 PM   #59
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Not really. People who own rental real estate and people who own businesses which are labor intensive made out like bandits. Then there are people who pay more as a result of the tax "cuts", including me.

Look at tax rate tables:

https://www.hrblock.com/tax-center/i...-tax-brackets/

Two things to keep in mind. If you decrease the tax rate on someone from 39.6% to 37%, that's a 6.6% decrease:

100% - 37%/39.6% = 6.6%

If you go from 28% to 24%, that's a 14.3% decrease. Also, upper income taxpayers are mostly stuck with an additional 3.8% Obamacare tax.

Anyway, single taxpayers making from $9,526 to $157,499 (married from $19,052 to $314,999) got significant cuts in the rate on their marginal income -- they're paying 12% to 14% less tax on marginal income.

The rich who make over $500,001 pay 6.6% less, not taking the Obamacare tax into consideration. Throw in the Obamacare tax and it's less than 6.6%, but not a lot less.

The tax cut was close to "0" for most singles making $157,501 to $499,999 (married from $315,001 to $599,999). And some actually ended up paying more. For example, a single taxpayer making between $157,501 and $191,649 got pushed up to a 32% tax bracket from the 28% bracket.

Then there were a host of changes to the tax law, other than tax rates, that primarily hurt upper income and wealthy taxpayers. The limit on deductibility of state income taxes is an example.
Brother Tiny. Shouldn’t Trump be judged after 4 years and not 2 1/2 years? I remember when his casinos and other businesses were lighting it up. He ended going bankrupt and not paying his bills. He has ultimately fucked everything and everyone he has ever done business with. Why would America be any different?
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Old 08-15-2019, 07:40 PM   #60
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Sure he did. Trump doubled GDP and raised wages and the lowest unemployment rate in 60yrs. Energy independence. Yep, that never happened under Obama. Trump rode Obama’s economy out the door. And created a great economy. Best in the world.
Bambino that’s the problem with Trump fans. Zero credit to Obama even though Bush left the country in the biggest financial mess since the depression. That’s a fact. When Trump came to office things were already good.
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