LE Operation Disruption on Northwest Highway tonite - my encounter

[JayThomas]

I saw zero girls and about 20 cop cars in a half hour loop on HH, Royal, Walnut Hill and NW Hwy. earlier tonight at around 1. Don't bother.

If you do, though, be prepared and know your rights. What happened to me made me glad I didn't let them bully me into incriminating myself. I was hassled by three cops after I swerved a bit near one of the no-tells on NW Hwy. -- there were two squad cars parked kind of hidden where you couldn't see them till you'd already slowed down, and I didn't notice till I'd started to make the turn.

I continued on and decided to pull into the first gas station. Just as I pulled up to the pump they turned in behind me. I got out of the car just as they hit the flashing lights and one blonde crew-cut late 20s blonde white cop started aggressively repeating "Get back in your car!" while another white cop (dark haired, mid to late 20s) and a black cop (medium-tone skin with moustache, mid to late 20s) shone flashlights into my car.

"I don't feel comfortable doing that," I said doing my best to keep my voice level. "Am I under arrest? I just want to get gas."

"He'll explain that to you if you get in the car," the black cop said.

"No, I'm not doing that. What did I do wrong?"

"I'm going to take you to the ground if you don't get in the car," lead cop said.

"Am I under arrest?"

We go back and forth a few times, tense as they size me up, till the cop asks for ID. And so they run my ID, then ask for my insurance, all the while shining flashlights all through my car. I'm nervous and damned if I can find the insurance papers. I ransack my glove box to no avail for a minute, then just tell them I don't have them.

The two white cops huddle while the black one stays with me at the pump, asking me where I live, if I don't realize I have to have insurance. I give one-word answers. Finally the others return and the lead prick gives me a long, weird combination lecture about the importance of complying with police orders and a sort of pseudo-apology that couldn't be literally interpreted as an admission of any wrongdoing. Telling me how dangerous the area is and how much he has to fight people, with crocodile tears about hating to fight. And how if it had been a younger cop it might have gotten violent -- how lucky I was to have an older, experienced officer! He just kept rambling, all defensive and clearly worried that I was going to complain about mistreatment, yet also emphasizing how mad he got that I didn't just obey him. And saying he wanted to take out his frustration on me with a ticket, but hadn't written a ticket for more than a year -- clearly a point of pride for him. This went on for several minutes. Finally they left. I pantomimed inserting my credit card and fake dialing as they drove off, then faked pumping gas.

It was surreal and pathetic. He was just an overgrown bully with a badge, jacked up on testosterone and looking for that adrenaline rush of a fight.

During the encounter, they told me the hotel is known for forbidden subjects and gangs and prostitution, that they're staking the place out as part of Operation Disruption. They clearly had blueballs for a fight or bust and were furious at me for blowing their cover and wasting their time.

[Whirlaway]

Why didn't you comply and get back into the car? Is that a legal strategy or were you just trying to make a statement of somekind?

[JayThomas]

I didn't want them going through my car. I thought I had a better chance of protecting myself from an illegal, groundless search by keeping the car locked. Also to try to maintain some control in the situation.

If I'm in my car, they can claim they saw me going for what they thought could have been a weapon (whether or not there was a weapon--in this case, there wasn't) and escalate it into handcuffing, grinding my face into the ground and searching the car. I don't trust cops at all, and I wanted to make sure they knew that it would all be captured on their dash cams and the store security cameras. If they did anything stupid while I was outside my car, it would have been obvious to anyone watching the tapes that they were roughing up an unarmed person who posed no threat at all. Even though I'd have been fucked if I'd been arrested, regardless of the outcome of any trial, I gambled that they would be aware of how bad THEY'D look, and not want to risk it going to court. I was right. They didn't even give me a ticket.

[Whirlaway]

Originally Posted by JayThomas

I didn't want them going through my car. I thought I had a better chance of protecting myself from an illegal, groundless search by keeping the car locked. Also to try to maintain some control in the situation.

If I'm in my car, they can claim they saw me going for what they thought could have been a weapon (whether or not there was a weapon--in this case, there wasn't) and escalate it into handcuffing, grinding my face into the ground and searching the car. I don't trust cops at all, and I wanted to make sure they knew that it would all be captured on their dash cams and the store security cameras. If they did anything stupid while I was outside my car, it would have been obvious to anyone watching the tapes that they were roughing up an unarmed person who posed no threat at all. Even though I'd have been fucked if I'd been arrested, regardless of the outcome of any trial, I gambled that they would be aware of how bad THEY'D look, and not want to risk it going to court. I was right. They didn't even give me a ticket.

Very smart (and quick) thinking.

[MustangRider]

dude they could have looked in your car if you are in it or not. You got lucky your head didn't get slammed into the concreat.

[Tiger Woods]

I believe it was good thinking on your part. I do not understand them asking you to get back into the car. Usually it's the other way around, asking someone to step out of the car.

the quality of LE has definitely taken a turn for the worse lately. I've personally witnessed some very questionable events where the police officers had obviously taken too many power pills that day.

[Grabazz]

You handled yourself pretty well. Although you were lucky they did not decide to move on you for obstruction or resisting.
They are able to provide a broad definition for that. Fortunately or unfortunately, they own the streets at night.

[daty/o]

We have long past the time when 'to protect and serve' should have been changed to 'to collect and observe'. Thanks for the info.

[Truckertom]

The only warrentless search they can do is for what is in plain view, if they have no probable couse then nothing will hold up in court. What you did could have gave them probable couse.

[latinbreeze]

I think you did the right thing. Staying in or getting back in the car can do exactly what you feared. They can make up whatever they want when you are in the car. Their cameras and audio equipment would be garbled or worse, they turn off the audio. They would say you made suspicious fertive movements. They would say they smelled alcohol and you looked intoxicated. Outside the car, if you act calmly and non-aggressive/non-confrontational, they have a hard time seeing things that don't exist. They know that their word would be taken as truth over yours if you were in the car. Outside the car, even absent the audio, the way you move and act is on camera. It's more difficult for them to make things up. And, stopping at the gas station was genius. Most of those places have cameras and, there may be witnesses.

If you stay in the car, roll down the window only a few inches to talk to the officers. If they ask you to get out or you choose to get out, lock the doors and put the keys in your pockets. Stay in front of the patrol car and ask why you are being stopped. If they get aggressive with you verbally or physically, ask them if you are under arrest - just as you did. If they won't answer, ask again politely. If they won't say, then ask if you are free to leave. If they say no, ask what why.

As far as being arrested for resisting arrest, there has to be a reason to arrest first. If no valid reason for an arrest can be seen, they will have a harder time saying that they had a valid reason for an arrest which you resisted. They may arrest you and charge with this, but it's something you can fight.

Cops can't arrest for no reason - but if they want to arrest you, and you make it easier for them, they will make up reasons. Cops can't stop you for no reason - but, if they really want to, they will make up a reason to stop you if they want to check you out. Late nights out in those areas or areas where bars exist, you can expect that any driving mistake will get you pulled over.

You did the right thing for this situation. They figured out they couldn't intimidate you. They couldn't intimidate you to the point that you acted nervous. Intimidation is one of their tools.

[Get_It_Greg]

Theres a lot of good cops out there, but boy are there some bad ones...Some of the ones that work the HH/NWH area can be counted in this too...And for a fact, I know some have sex with the girls out there and on other tracks. This info will probably upset someone but the truth hurts.

[Kasper]

That was stupid. You may have gotten away with it in this instance, however I can assure you most officers would have arrested and perhaps roughed you up in the process for not complying with police orders. Whether you like it or not they are the ones in charge as soon as the red and blues began flashing.

You should have complied with the officers request to get back into your vehicle. Answered any questions he/she may have asked you(how you answer is up to you). If they ask you to step out of the vehicle, comply, roll up your windows and lock your doors and close the door upon exit. If they ask you why you did that, tell them force of habit when you exit your vehicle. If they ask you for permission to search your vehicle, tell them no. If they threaten a warrant, tell them fine get one. If you have nothing to hide, it is just a waste of time for both parties. If you do, there is a good chance they will not call your bluff. I don't recommend doing that again.

[clubpro]

I guess this is the "fun part"? My whole life I've wondered why people cruise HH and take all these risks - but that's the thrill I guess? But then n the ohter hand I usually prefer Dancers over Providers (no pun intended) since you really never know exactly what you might be getting different albeit much safer thrill.

I have never really understood the whole HH trolling thing though, the risk / reward ration just seems way off... No judegement - just curious.

[clubpro]

And I see I REALLY need to start spell checking!

[bpmonk]

What is that device on the south side by the gas station? Is that another type of red light camera, or something else?