SPEED senile Joe gets AL Bore's endorement...WTF does Ol'Joe say to him?? Please decipher for us!!

[HoeHummer]

That happened before the US of Eh became the most infected country on the planet, and the one place nobody wants to visit or accept visitors from.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by bambino

Then why did China come to the table and sign a trade deal? Why did Mexico finally put 20,000 troops on their southern border a week after Trump said he would slap tariffs on them? Coincidentally, the caravans have stopped. One can say Mexico is paying to help secure our border.

China is our economic equal. Mexico is not. Tariffs imposed on Mexico, one of our allies, could destroy their economy, therefore they had to concede to Trump's threats.

The tariff war has gotten us nowhere at this point in time. It is costing each person in this country an unknown amount of money. And Trump is proposing new tariffs on China, who will then impose new tariffs on the U.S.

China Trade Deal Turns From Key Trump Asset to an Albatross

The trade agreement President Donald Trump signed with China less than four months ago has gone from a cornerstone of his re-election bid to a potential political liability as the pandemic sours the relationship between the world’s two biggest economies.

The phase-one pact, which took effect in mid-February, is falling short on a number of fronts, including Beijing’s promises of large agriculture and energy purchases. But the Trump administration so far has been hesitant to ramp up the pressure or back away from the deal altogether, even as the rhetoric on both sides heats up.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-to-albatross

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

China is our economic equal..

According to the 80/20 principle perhaps
China exports 80% of what they make and consumes 20%
US exports 20% of what we make and consumes 80%

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

...The tariff war has gotten us nowhere at this point in time. It is costing each person in this country an unknown amount of money...

Thought it got us a trade deal. Seems like more than nothing. That's what the Bloomingburger article states. How does something have a cost if it is unknown? Can you clarify the cost and what is unknown about it? Did you pay more from some toy from China that was important in your life?

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

...China Trade Deal Turns From Key Trump Asset to an Albatross

The trade agreement President Donald Trump signed with China less than four months ago has gone from a cornerstone of his re-election bid to a potential political liability as the pandemic sours the relationship between the world’s two biggest economies.

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

The phase-one pact, which took effect in mid-February, is falling short on a number of fronts, including Beijing’s promises of large agriculture and energy purchases. But the Trump administration so far has been hesitant to ramp up the pressure or back away from the deal altogether, even as the rhetoric on both sides heats up...

Recapping the above drivel; In mid February, the trade deal between US and China was supposed to take effect. Color me curious, but was there any other thing-a-ma-jig going on in the world during that time frame that we should be concerned with? Something like a high priority interrupt? Anything at all? Is thinking just too darned hard for you?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

China is our economic equal. Mexico is not. Tariffs imposed on Mexico, one of our allies, could destroy their economy, therefore they had to concede to Trump's threats.

The tariff war has gotten us nowhere at this point in time. It is costing each person in this country an unknown amount of money. And Trump is proposing new tariffs on China, who will then impose new tariffs on the U.S.

China Trade Deal Turns From Key Trump Asset to an Albatross

The trade agreement President Donald Trump signed with China less than four months ago has gone from a cornerstone of his re-election bid to a potential political liability as the pandemic sours the relationship between the world’s two biggest economies.

The phase-one pact, which took effect in mid-February, is falling short on a number of fronts, including Beijing’s promises of large agriculture and energy purchases. But the Trump administration so far has been hesitant to ramp up the pressure or back away from the deal altogether, even as the rhetoric on both sides heats up.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...t-to-albatross

China is our economic equal? Really? Can they produce enough food to feed their people? No, but they don’t care. How many cars do the export? Aircraft? We let them become an economic power and we can slap them down too. We can start manufacturing things that we gave to China. Which was starting to happen during the trade war which will accelerate after the Pandemic. Trump was on to them years ago while Biden said they weren’t competition for us. “They’re good folks” that’s exactly what your candidate said.

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

According to the 80/20 principle perhaps
China exports 80% of what they make and consumes 20%
US exports 20% of what we make and consumes 80%



Thought it got us a trade deal. Seems like more than nothing. That's what the Bloomingburger article states. How does something have a cost if it is unknown? Can you clarify the cost and what is unknown about it? Did you pay more from some toy from China that was important in your life?

[COLOR=Red]
Recapping the above drivel; In mid February, the trade deal between US and China was supposed to take effect. Color me curious, but was there any other thing-a-ma-jig going on in the world during that time frame that we should be concerned with? Something like a high priority interrupt? Anything at all? Is thinking just too darned hard for you?

Sorry, but once again you write a lot and say nothing.

And once again you seem to have negelected to answer MY question:

If Trump had gone through with his proposed 10% tariff on cell phones manufactured in China late last year, who would have paid that tariff? China? Apple? Companies such as Verizon who sell the phones to consumers? Consumers? Or no one?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by bambino

China is our economic equal? Really? Can they produce enough food to feed their people? No, but they don’t care. How many cars do the export? Aircraft? We let them become an economic power and we can slap them down too. We can start manufacturing things that we gave to China. Which was starting to happen during the trade war which will accelerate after the Pandemic. Trump was on to them years ago while Biden said they weren’t competition for us. “They’re good folks” that’s exactly what your candidate said.

"China's economy produced $25.3 trillion in 2018, according to the International Monetary Fund. That's based on purchasing power parity which takes into account the effect of exchange rates, making it the best method for comparing gross domestic product by country.

It also makes China the world's largest economy. The European Union is second, at $22 trillion. The United States is third, producing $20.5 trillion.

China regained its position as the world's largest exporter in 2017 when it exported $2.15 trillion of its production. The EU briefly took the No. 1 spot in 2016. It now is second, exporting $1.93 trillion. The U.S. is third, exporting $1.57 trillion.10

In 2018, China shipped $479.7 billion worth of goods to the U.S., contributing to a $419 billion trade deficit for the U.S. That accounted for 19.2% of China's exports that year, greater than any other country. Hong Kong was next at $302.9 billion (12.1%), followed by Japan at $147.2 billion (5.9%)."

https://www.thebalance.com/china-eco...conomy-3306345

As for your claim that China not being able to produce enough food for its people:

"Over the past four decades, China’s grain consumption has more than doubled from 125 million tons in 1975 to 261 million tons in 2016. Considerable investments in agriculture have enabled China’s farmers to produce high volumes of staple crops, with China only importing a few million tons of rice and wheat per year. China often produces around the same amount of grain products as it consumes, resulting in a production-consumption ratio of roughly 1.0 since the mid-2000s.

Over the past ten years, China’s food imports have increased from approximately $6 million in 2005 to $300 million in 2015. China’s food imports make up 6.7 percent of its total merchandise imports, placing it ahead of the United States (5.7 percent), India (5.6 percent), and Brazil (5.1 percent)."

https://chinapower.csis.org/china-food-security/

So China is barely ahead of the U.S when it comes to food imports.

Yes, China is a definite economic superpower. Yes, China has potential food problems with 4 times the population of the U.S.

So once again I have presented FACTS to counter your OPINIONS.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Sorry, but once again you write a lot and say nothing.

And once again you seem to have negelected to answer MY question:

If Trump had gone through with his proposed 10% tariff on cell phones manufactured in China late last year, who would have paid that tariff? China? Apple? Companies such as Verizon who sell the phones to consumers? Consumers? Or no one?

He quoted what you said. Which is half of his post. Nothing from nothing is nothing.

[dilbert firestorm]

food thing... you do know that china mostly imports food from africa. they've bought up african land for farming. half of china is a desert/mountains.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by dilbert firestorm

food thing... you do know that china mostly imports food from africa. they've bought up african land for farming. half of china is a desert/mountains.

It will be a longtime before China will yield agricultural dividends in Africa:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/afric...in-africa/amp/

The Middle East has been buying land in Africa way before China. 30% of Africans are undernourished. They import more grain than they grow. Lots of mouths to feed.

[eccielover]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

If Trump had gone through with his proposed 10% tariff on cell phones manufactured in China late last year, who would have paid that tariff? China? Apple? Companies such as Verizon who sell the phones to consumers? Consumers? Or no one?

The operative word is If there.

I've said in the past and will say it again, you can't just look at the tariffs in the vacuum of simply the price on the consumer. You have to look at what economic leverage you get out of them too.

And in the example above, that "threatened" tariff got concessions elsewhere on their tariffs to us.

Sure some consumer prices go up, but that also means demand potentially shifts somewhere else harming the country upon whom the tariffs were rendered.

To look at is only through the eyes of consumer pricing is, IMHO, to take a somewhat narrow approach to the overall goal.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Interesting theory and total dodge of the price of washing machines. Would you be able to highlight the question mark in your post that I quoted? My editor ain't showing it. Though I did ask you several still unanswered questions.

Did the price of cell phones go up from China to consumers? Let's start there.

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

Sorry, but once again you write a lot and say nothing.

And once again you seem to have negelected to answer MY question:

If Trump had gone through with his proposed 10% tariff on cell phones manufactured in China late last year, who would have paid that tariff? China? Apple? Companies such as Verizon who sell the phones to consumers? Consumers? Or no one?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by eccielover

The operative word is If there.

I've said in the past and will say it again, you can't just look at the tariffs in the vacuum of simply the price on the consumer. You have to look at what economic leverage you get out of them too.

And in the example above, that "threatened" tariff got concessions elsewhere on their tariffs to us.

Sure some consumer prices go up, but that also means demand potentially shifts somewhere else harming the country upon whom the tariffs were rendered.

To look at is only through the eyes of consumer pricing is, IMHO, to take a somewhat narrow approach to the overall goal.

Exactly, when prices of tariffs on Chinese products gets too high, people will buy other products, maybe ones that are made here that would be cheaper than those from China. Mebbe Speedy should ask why other countries tariff the hell out of American made products. It’s been going on for ever. Like our dairy products in Canada?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by eccielover

The operative word is If there.

I've said in the past and will say it again, you can't just look at the tariffs in the vacuum of simply the price on the consumer. You have to look at what economic leverage you get out of them too.

And in the example above, that "threatened" tariff got concessions elsewhere on their tariffs to us.

Sure some consumer prices go up, but that also means demand potentially shifts somewhere else harming the country upon whom the tariffs were rendered.

To look at is only through the eyes of consumer pricing is, IMHO, to take a somewhat narrow approach to the overall goal.

I was using the proposed tariffs as an example. There are tariffs on many, many products imported from China, but I was more familiar with the proposed tariffs. You are correct in that there are many aspects to look at as to how effective tariffs are. That, however, is not the question I asked that I wanted answered prior to the discussion moving in other directions.

3 times last week, twice in the coronavirus updates and once via a tweet, Trump stated the following:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?c48690...riffs-treasury

I do not have a degree from Wharton, one of the finest business schools in the country, as Trump does. And it's been a long time since I took an economics course. But from my understanding China is not paying us a dime due to the tariffs imposed on them. That's not how tariffs work. Companies importing the products pay the tariffs and then have the choice as to whether or not pass those increased costs on to the consumers.

Agree or disagree?

[SpeedRacerXXX]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Interesting theory and total dodge of the price of washing machines. Would you be able to highlight the question mark in your post that I quoted? My editor ain't showing it. Though I did ask you several still unanswered questions.

Did the price of cell phones go up from China to consumers? Let's start there.

I dodge questions??? I've been asking you one simple question for a day or two now and you ask questions but are hesitant to answer them. When you respond to my question I'll get back to your questions.

If Trump had gone through with his proposed 10% tariff on cell phones manufactured in China late last year, who would have paid that tariff? China? Apple? Companies such as Verizon who sell the phones to consumers? Consumers? Or no one?


The price would have gone up to importers. How much the importers decided to pass on to consumers is the only question. China did NOT give any money to the U.S. due to the tariffs, as Trump is stating.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

...There are also some front load washing machines stated to be made in China...

So you are "stating" you bought a Samsung washing machine, where Constarblue in Austrailia "stated" some front load models might be made in China. Which model(s) are made in China? The Cornstarblue article failed to mention that and I'm not seeing in their 82 year history much of anything made in China by them. But I did read at Cornstarblu that the price range of Samsung washers is pretty broad and many, many features and options are available. So what are the odds that you happened to want a certain model, with certain features, that are only manufactured in China?

Originally Posted by SpeedRacerXXX

But you seem to have negelected to answer MY question: If Trump had gone through with his proposed 10% tariff on cell phones manufactured in China late last year, who would have paid that tariff? China? Apple? Companies such as Verizon who sell the phones to consumers? Consumers? Or no one?

I dunno, I suppose I might be fishing on that day IF that happens in the future. Unless of course, I am able to master time travel before that happens, in which case I would be able to answer your hypothetical question with a factual future answer.

But my gut says, that if China tried to pass along a price increase on one of the mostly hotly competitive technologies in a market place, they would be stupid and would be inconsistent with their demonstrated goal of world domination of that market and would most likely devalue (manipulate) their currency, yet again, to absorb the increase to the end user.