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CuteOldGuy · 07-07-2011, 03:47 PM

Ok, we sold guns knowing they would end up in the hands of drug terrorists, and these same guns are used to kill our law enforcement officers. If President Bush had pulled anything like this (and I don't care for President Bush) he would have been hanged. This is outrageous!

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-20/p..._s=PM:POLITICS

CuteOldGuy · 07-07-2011, 04:01 PM

Now it appears the Justice Department under the able leadership of John Mitchell, er, that is, Eric Holder, is impeding the investigation. Can you say "Nixon?" The only difference here is that no one died at the Watergate.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...est=latestnews

MsElena · 07-07-2011, 04:40 PM

If I remember my history correct, didn't Reagan/Bush office do this too? Just to Iraq, in which those guns killed US soliders? Killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq too right?

Did Reagan get impeached?

dirty dog · 07-07-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsElena

If I remember my history correct, didn't Reagan/Bush office do this too? Just to Iraq, in which those guns killed US soliders? Killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq too right?

Did Reagan get impeached?

No but Ollie went to prison.

Kshunter · 07-07-2011, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsElena

If I remember my history correct, didn't Reagan/Bush office do this too? Just to Iraq, in which those guns killed US soliders? Killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq too right?

Did Reagan get impeached?

Little different situation. We sent arms to Iran in exchange for the release of the US hostages. We also sent arms to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war; both operations were not pretty but were a logical extension of US foreign policy.

vitokc · 07-07-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirty dog

No but Ollie went to prison.

and got a book deal, and had either a radio or TV talk show.
Hell guys and gals, we need to get arrested and see if we
can get a book deal like all these other criminals. Maybe a reality
show.

CuteOldGuy · 07-07-2011, 08:46 PM

In what world does "If Reagan did it, it must be ok" a justification? Sorry, MsElena, I love you, but I don't care what Reagan did. If I had been posting on this board back then, I would have demanded his hide, too. I don't play the Democrat/Republican game. I treat them all with the scorn they deserve.

CuteOldGuy · 07-07-2011, 08:48 PM

I don't think Ollie went to prison, but I might be wrong. There are never enough politicians in prison. They should release some of the drug users who need treatment and use those beds for members of Congress. Democrats to the left, Republicans to the right.

dirty dog · 07-07-2011, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I don't think Ollie went to prison, but I might be wrong. There are never enough politicians in prison. They should release some of the drug users who need treatment and use those beds for members of Congress. Democrats to the left, Republicans to the right.

COG you are correct he did not go to prison, he was given a suspended sentence and probation, but then with the help of the ACLU he got his sentences vacated.

MsElena · 07-07-2011, 09:33 PM

COG,

I wasn't trying to play the blame game nor was I saying that Obama should get a pass. Just trying to prove a point that all POTUS' have screwed up and will continue to do so.

CuteOldGuy · 07-07-2011, 10:04 PM

Yes, they all screw up, but this is reprehensible. We sell guns to the cartel, we tell our guys they can't shoot at them, then the cartel uses the guns we provided to shoot our guys. This is the most screwed up, dangerous border policy I have ever heard. What kind of a moron would even think up this plan, let alone make it policy for the Greatest Nation on Earth? Then they try to cover it up?

Here are the shovel ready jobs - digging graves for our border protectors, and for the precious service men and women he's sending to wars all over the globe where we have no interest whatsoever. I try to take things with a bit of humor, knowing that I can't change anything, but outright, intentional, and deadly stupidity in the name of National Security really pisses me off. Think that agent had a family? Kids? A mother who loved him? He was just a working slob, doing his job like we all do. Then he gets killed with a gun his employer (us) gave to the assassin!

Catnip says I dream of 195fucking9. Gee, Eisenhower, Kennedy - Yeah, I'd take those two over the bunch of clowns we have "serving" us today. Our current crop of Keystone Kops couldn't lead us out of a paper or plastic bag. God Help America!

MsElena · 07-07-2011, 10:25 PM

COG,

The government has sold guns to the "other sides" since god knows when. Its never going to stop. I'm not saying that we need to rollover and just take it, but I don't see the public holding their government accountable for it.

thorough9 · 07-08-2011, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Ok, we sold guns knowing they would end up in the hands of drug terrorists, and these same guns are used to kill our law enforcement officers. If President Bush had pulled anything like this (and I don't care for President Bush) he would have been hanged. This is outrageous!

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-20/p..._s=PM:POLITICS

The federal government didn't sell guns to anyone. The ATF, used a common investigative technique (let the "buy" happen and follow the guns back to the money man, in this case, the Mexican distributor) and that went wrong (which is entirely understandable due to the rampant amounts of corruption in Mexican LE)...

I'm sure, for your sake that President Obama was the first line supervisor, and was watching it all go down in the "war room" in the same manner as the Bin Laden operation, and just made a bad call. You say that you're not partisan, then why attempt to justify your call for impeachment by saying, "if bush had done this". You only get impeached for getting a blowjob, in this country, not for causing the deaths of other people....

Guest052813-01 · 07-08-2011, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorough9

The federal government didn't sell guns to anyone. The ATF, used a common investigative technique (let the "buy" happen and follow the guns back to the money man, in this case, the Mexican distributor) and that went wrong (which is entirely understandable due to the rampant amounts of corruption in Mexican LE)...

I'm sure, for your sake that President Obama was the first line supervisor, and was watching it all go down in the "war room" in the same manner as the Bin Laden operation, and just made a bad call. You say that you're not partisan, then why attempt to justify your call for impeachment by saying, "if bush had done this". You only get impeached for getting a blowjob, in this country, not for causing the deaths of other people....

As usual, you see the world through your rose-Dem-colored glasses. Nixon was almost impeached because he lied and tried to cover up Watergate; Clinton was impeached because he lied, under oath, during an investigation and tried to cover it up. Same thing here - Holder's trying to cover up a failed operation that happened domestically. The Bamster won't be impeached for this. And the excuse "...well other Presidents have done this and they didn't get impeached for it..." doesn't fly - each fuck-up is evaluated by the circumstances of the fuck-up, who was affected/damaged by the action and what the political circumstances are at the time. He may be impeached, because the House majority is of the opposite party, but he won't be convicted in the Senate because his own party controls that chamber - and neither party will bring down one of their own.

dirty dog · 07-08-2011, 07:03 AM

In all fairness I seriously doubt that Obama, Biden, or any off the "top brass" even knew this was going on. This was a Law Enforcement operation no different than buy busts for drugs. Do you think the brass was involved in this operation, do you really, come on. At best this goes to the director of the ATFE. As for Holder trying to "hide" this, do we really want the cartel's knowing how were investigating them, do we really want the rest of the world to know what fuck ups we are sometimes. I hate to tell you this, but LE operations go bad all the time and they cost people their lives. How come every incident has to be politicized. Maybe your lack of first hand knowledge of how LE operates is the reason for this mentality, but not all occurances are the fault of a President regardless of who is in the office.